SubscribeIn part 1 of this post, I outlined the problem of connecting the Zoom H4N to Sound Devices MixPre. In a nutshell, the signal the MixPre sends via it’s Tape Out is too hot for the Zoom’s line in. I posted a workaround that allowed us to get by, and a proper solution using a -10db inline pad. Since then, sound recordist Lisa Cooper and I have been using this combination on an almost daily basis shooting a documentary called Beyond Naked. And we’ve hit on an even better solution that truly kicks ass and makes us smile. Here it is:
The problem with these lightweight 3.5mm jacks is that, when we used ones that go straight in, they tend to stick out and get knocked around in the sound bag (see photo below):
Because it’s coupled with the -10db pad at the critical connecting point, it tends to lever itself loose, causing static, or worse, it could break off or damage the internal jack on the MixPre. The right-angle connector, on the other hand, lies flat, which gives everything a safe, low profile in the sound bag.
The Pink Noise cable is the way to go. Because it’s -25db, you have to set the recording level on the Zoom H4N a bit higher. We’ve found the best setting is 28. (The best setting is 20 with the M-Audio -10 pad). Any higher, and it’ll start to clip on the Zoom before the MixPre limiters kick in. The best thing about the Pink Noise cable, besides the fact that it makes the tape out signal usable, is that it has a right-angle connector that allows it to connect to the MixPre without sticking out.
Here’s the parts list:
Hosa Right-Angle 3.5mm to Right-Angle 3.5mm Stereo Cable ($3.99 at B&H Photo)
1/8″ Stereo Phone Coupler ($3.99 at Radio Shack)
Pink Noise -25db DSLR Cable ($54 direct from Pink Noise Systems in UK)
Live Wire 3.5mm TRS to dual 1/4″ cable ($8.99 at Guitar Center)
If you order the Pink Noise cable, make sure you email and ask to have the VAT tax dropped (you don’t have to pay it if you’re ordering from US). They have great customer service if you ask, but you’ll get overcharged if you simply place the order via the web form, since there is no option to not pay VAT on their order form.
And finally, here’s why it’s such a big deal to have the right-angle connectors: because sound bags in real life look like this! Cable management is very important to getting the job done.
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Interesting. I don’t have an arrow on mine, so maybe it’s a newer version than mine. On mine, the right angle comes out of the MixPre, which is where the hot signal comes from. For ergonomic reasons, I want the right angle at the source, and that works fine on mine. Have you tried it both ways?
Hey Dan,
I’ve been trying to make this connection work with my mix pre-d and zoom so that I can use it on the one man documentary I have been shooting over the summer. However, for some reason it isn’t working by just plugging the chords in. Currently the only way I get sound in both devices at the same time is if I am turning the Slate mic on. This includes plugging a Shure SM7B into the Mix Pre-D as an experiment (only showed up in the mix pre. No data in the zoom) and trying to reverse the chord inputs. Is there any chance that I need to pick a specific setting on either the Zoom or the h4N to make the connection work as you have described? Also, I know the original Mix Pre did not have the 48v/Mic/Line switches on the side like the Mix Pre-D does so is there anything I need to do with those switches? Finally, have you ever thought about making a video tutorial on this? Thanks for any help you can provide.
Hi Brian,
Unfortunately I don’t have the Mix Pre-D, so I’m unable to give you any advice, since it would be something I haven’t tried myself. The differences that are obvious, though, is that on the D you won’t need an attenuator, because it allows you to select the proper signal level using the Mic/Line options. Plug it in and try toggling through the options – you won’t break anything!
Hey Dan! Great stuff. As I’m starting to experiment with the MixPre/H4N combo, I was wondering what you typically set your levels to. I’m running a -25db Sescom cable. What do you set the input levels to on the Zoom? What do you set the headphone levels to on the Zoom? Thanks, man.
Hi Steve,
My inputs on Zoom are set to 27. In testing, I discovered that is the loudest they can be without ever clipping. Your mileage may vary – be sure to test yourself, because the cable is different brand, etc. As far as headphones, mine are set on the Zoom to 100, and I use the dial on the MixPre to control the headphone levels. I tend to start each recording session with the headphone volume on the MixPre set very low, and dial it up only as far as I need to hear well, to save my hearing from any unexpected ear-splitting sounds that occasionally happen at the beginning of a session.
Hi Dan,
For the Tascam dr100mkii, there are no dual 1/4″ jacks at the base like the Zomm H4N. Do you think the Livewire 3.5mm TRS Dual XLR(m) patch cable will work in it’s place of the dual 1/4″ cable?
Many thanks!
[...] better preamp? Dan McComb cracks the problem of attaching pro preamps to consumer recorders. A two part series explains how to get around the signal issues and connect a Sound Devices MixPre to an H4n. [...]
Hey Dan,
I stumbled across this article while looking for a bag for my SD MixPre. After reading your article, I gained quite a better understanding of how to interface my MixPre with my Zoom H4N. I have been using both for a while and am quite satisfied with the results.
However, I wanted a little more clarification on why using 1/8 TRS to Dual 1/4 cable from the “Tape Out” of the MixPre to the H4N was better than using a Female XLR to Male XLR cable with an attenuator attached from the “Output” of the MixPre to the H4N was better.
I have never even thought about using the “Tape Out” option. I would normally put an attenuator on the “Output” of the MixPre and split the signal to run L & R to the Zoom (XLR to XLR) and run L & R to Camera (Dual XLR to 1/8 TRS). The only downside was I had way too many cables. SMH.
I am still new to the audio world and would appreciate any advice. Thanks again. Keep up the great work.
Vic
Hi Vic,
There’s more than one way to achieve the same result, and if your setup sounds fine, then it is fine. Here’s my thinking: I’ve read that using the phono inputs instead of the XLR inputs on the Zoom bypasses the Zoom’s preamps. Since the preamps on the SD are vastly superior to those on the Zoom, that’s what you want. But I’ve never been able to confirm this in any of the documentation for the device. I know that configured this way, the SD sends a hot line-level signal to the Zoom, which allows me to turn the recording levels down very low on the Zoom, which helps bypass them even if they weren’t completely bypassed by the first step. I’ve never hooked my SD to my Zoom using the XLR to XLR, because I’ve thought that sends a mic-level signal, rather than line level. Sounds like I might be wrong about that, if you’re having to use an attenuator anyway. What are you setting the recording levels to on the Zoom with your setup?
Hey Dan,
Thanks for the speedy reply. I will definitely be trying your setup because in the long run, the slightest chance to make my audio better will always be the way I go. I am still new to this, so I am always up to learning and/or trying something new. I had also heard that Zoom’s preamps were noisy but I never knew of anything to limit that. Below is the link the attenuator I bought from Amazon, which has proven its worth in the field. I mostly interface with Canon 5D’s and 60D’s and the setting on the cameras are always 1 click above 0. The levels that I record on my Zoom are normally around 45. I never go above 50 though. Granted my attenuator is set to -30. If you try something different, please let me know. Thanks again.
Vic
Attenuator Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K67U52/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00
Hi Vic, your attenuator looks great. Regarding recording directly into dslrs, I also use recording level of 1 click above 0 on dslrs when recording reference audio. I use a VideoMic Pro set to the plus 10 db option to provide the hot signal when recording reference audio.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the reply. I did have one addition question. How do you like using the Videomic Pro? Do you find yourself using more than a regular shotgun mic?
Hi Vic,
I LOVE the Videomic Pro. I use it almost exclusively for recording reference audio, though, because I do dual-system sound. But I have mixed the audio from this mic very successfully with the boom and lav, when it has had a better perspective. It’s a fantastic mic. My only complaint is still with the shock mount. It’s fiddly. And in real hard-core documentary environments, I find it doesn’t hold up very well to abuse because it gets knocked off the rubber feet, and then it takes forever to reattach it. Especially when you’re in a stressful shooting environment or under pressure. But I haven’t found anything better yet.
Hello Dan,
Superb article!!!
I have a doubt, sorry abt this nooby question.
Instead of using the first 3 parts mentioned in your parts list, would it be possible to use this cable from “Sescom LN2MIC-ZMGH-MON 3.5 Line to 2.5 Mic 25dB for Zoom H4N with Monitoring Tap”
http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMGH-MON
Can u please give me some advice, because here in india none of the parts are available and im in a situation to buy these online but the problem is i couldnt find all the parts in one on-line store,
For ex: if i buy (1/8″ Stereo Phone Coupler) from radio shack for 3 $ im in a situation to spend another 25-30 $ for shipping & like wise for other parts also.
I thought if i buy the seacom cable it would solve my problem, but before buying i thought i should get some pro advice.
Looking froward to hearing from you.
Best Regards,
Bala.
Yes that is likely going to work for you just fine.
Thankyou Dan, this is very much appreciated!!!
Bala,
Thanks a lot for the explanation. What happens if you connect the attenuator cable directly to the TRS external mic input on the back of the H4n? Is there a substantial difference with your proposed attenuator cable – adapter – breakout?
I haven’t tried that Luis. Seems like it would work as well.